CITY COUNCIL

February 28, 2001

LOUISVILLE, NE

A regular meeting of the City Council of the City of Louisville was held on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 7:00 p.m. at the City Hall. Present was Mayor Henry, Council Members: Rod Petersen, Don Harris, Dave Pankonin and Greg Manley. Several guests were also present. 

Notice of the regular meeting was given in advance thereof by publication in the Plattsmouth Journal and by posting in three (3) public places as shown by the certificate attached to these minutes. Notice was simultaneously given to all council members. Their acknowledgement of receipt of notice and the agenda is attached to these minutes. All proceedings thereafter were taken while the convened meeting was open to the public. 

Motion by Manley, second by Petersen to approve the consent agenda, which consists of minutes from the February 14, 2001 meeting, city warrants, treasurer's report, investment report and acknowledgement of receipt of Planning Commission minutes. Roll call vote: Harris, aye; Manley, aye; Pankonin, aye; Petersen, aye. Motion carried. 

No hearings were held.

Dave Pankonin read to the council and audience the rough draft of a letter to John Jacobsen, Nebraska Department of Roads, regarding the suspension of the Fifth Street/Highway 66 project and the request that funds allocated for the Fifth Street project be held in escrow while a study on a southern bypass is conducted. The intent of this letter is to obviously not let loose of the money allocated, but is basically saying the City wants to talk with them further. Dave felt Bereuter's office would be the key since the money for the design study came from Bereuter's office and we will need federal funding to get the big project done. Mayor Henry noted this is what they call non-traditional highway funding. There is some money available and Representative Bereuter has been pretty successful in getting that money in the past. A lot of the money for the Plattsmouth Bridge has come through Bereuter's office. Mayor Henry asked the council for their opinion on going forward with this letter. Rod Petersen felt it should be done as soon as possible. Motion by Petersen, second by Harris the letter be approved and sent to the Department of Roads engineer. Ayes: Harris, Manley, Pankonin, Petersen. Nays: none. Motion carried. The clerk will get the letter ready for signatures by each council member. Dave Pankonin will contact the county commissioners for a letter from them and will also contact Bereuter's office to see if someone can come down and talk with the council about the project. 

Discussion on Candy McClun and Cheryl Knutson attending the Summit User Group Meeting in Ralston on March 23, 2001 from 9:00 to 3:00 p.m. There is no fee to attend and they will need someone to cover the phones in the office while they are gone. Motion by Pankonin, second by Manley to send Candy McClun and Cheryl Knutson to the Summit User Group Meeting, March 23, 2001 in Ralston. Ayes: Harris, Manley, Pankonin and Petersen. Nays: none. Motion carried.

Candy McClun read a letter received from the Nebraska Department of Roads regarding the extension of Eastwood Drive and changing the access rights to Highway 66 via Eastwood Drive. Reference was made to a letter from the Department of Roads on June 5, 1998 asking for clarification and information. Rod Petersen noted since it is in the One and Six Year Plan they should be notified as such so they can do what they need to do. Dave Pankonin asked where Eastwood Drive would come out and if we know any specifics. Rod Petersen noted this was basically for the access. Dave Pankonin asked if this would cross over Bob Copple's bridge for his driveway. Bob felt this was the only place they could do it, since it is an access now. Bob had not heard anything about this. Don Harris asked who owns this property. Errol Meisinger owns the property. Bob said there was some conversation before about doing this, but how it would be done, he did not know. He is sure where it will be is the access that he (Bob Copple) uses. Rod Petersen said the main thing was whether we could get access to the highway. Dave Pankonin noted the letter was from the Right of Way Division. Bob Copple agreed that they control that. Larry Gulizia said there was more discussion than anything else on whether the road was wide enough so that people could turn in, they wanted to make it at least a 28' wide street. Bob Copple felt it would take a whole new approach, the one that is there would not be suitable. Don Harris asked if this is something we would have to follow-up on, would we have to proceed with that within a certain length of time after the approval. Greg Manley noted it just gives the City the right of way to get an access if anyone wants to develop. Larry Gulizia said in the past they would never give us access because of the curb in there, apparently now they are saying they will give us access to it. Mayor Henry noted what the letter is really saying is that if it is part of our One and Six Year Plan; they need to be notified of it. Larry Gulizia said if we get the bypass, there should be no reason why we couldn't put more traffic out on Highway 66 there. Eric Obert said there was some question as to where exactly the property line was and he doesn't know if this was ever resolved and has been going on for some time. Eric Obert will contact Steve Parr, Street Superintendent from JEO, regarding this matter. Motion by Manley, second by Petersen to have Eric Obert check in to this and respond to the letter. Ayes: Harris, Manley, Pankonin and Petersen. Nays: none. Motion carried.

Larry Wittrock of People's Service reported on Well #3. The temporary well has been drilled. The testing was completed on February 28, 2001. They flushed for 24 hours starting on February 27, 2001 and started out with a static flow of 13'9" from the top of the casing. As soon as they started pumping, this dropped to 17', which is normal. Twenty-five minutes later it was down to 18'1" and at 4:00 p.m. it was up to 18'6" and it stayed at that level until 9:00 a.m. on February 28, 2001. This was pumping way more than we will be able to pump into the system. There is no head pressure against it and they are pumping 545 gallons per minute for 24 hours. There is no way we would ever do that much unless we had a major break right in front of the well. The water is there, if we can just get the tests back good and get it going. It will probably be about 90 days before we find out on how the tests come out. Eric Obert said if the weather cooperates, Layne-Western will be placing concrete around the casing and possibly set the pump. Right now we will have to wait for the tests; it could be three to six weeks. In the meantime, the plans are down at the State and he has not heard from they yet. He will touch base with them. He would like to start next week advertising the second part, if we can so they can get the contract going and start on the building. Eric also noted there were some modifications in the design because when they got down to the bedrock, there was a fracture and they started losing a lot of the pit water, so they did shorten the well up a little up as they were concerned about loosing the hole. Eric noted that so far everything had been successful, other than the frozen ground. Mayor Henry asked if the problems could be the water test. Eric noted the water test was crucial, but the mechanics were great. Mayor Henry asked if there was any reason why the water would not test out okay, since the well is only 20' away. Eric felt there wold be no problems. 

Ron Ross and Tom Cajka of Ross Engineering gave the following presentation on the South Ridge Subdivision. 

Tom Cajka began the presentation by filling in the council on the presentation given to the Planning Commission on February 21, 2001. After that meeting, it was decided to revise the plan due to recommendations made at the Planning Commission presentation. One street on the north was eliminated to allow for larger lots, as one of the comments was the lots appeared to be a little small. Other lots on the cul-de-sacs were also eliminated to provide for larger lots. One half-acre lot in the rural area was split into two lots and made part of the urban area. Tom Cajka pointed out on their drawing what is being platted now and what is being considered an outlot for future development. There are 159 acres being platted. The development will be done in phases. 

In Phase IA and IB there are 17 lots that are half-acre or larger and 33 lots in the urban area that are 8 to 10,000 sq. ft. lots. The sanitary sewer system would be all 8" mains throughout the development with individual service lines going to the lots. Mr. Cajka pointed out on the drawing where the sanitary sewer in red would be located and the existing manhole. The water mains are shown in blue on the drawing and storm sewer shown in green. The drawing shows two detention cells, one at the entrance that is a dry cell; would not have permanent water in it, will collect the water after a rain then slowly releases. The center cell, in Phase III, will be a wet cell with permanent water and possibly a fountain in it. 

The streets will be 26' concrete streets in the urban area, with curb, gutter and sidewalks. The rural area was changed after the meeting last week from 24' asphalt to 26' asphalt with no curb and gutter. They have removed the chipped limestone trail originally in the plan. They have added a trail in the future area of Phase IC for recreational type purposes. This will also give people access. The flat open meadow area in Phase IC will also be able to be used for recreational purposes. They are suggesting that one street tree per lot be put in the covenants for the subdivision. Dick Berner and Bob Copple are proposing doing some extensive landscaping along the Outlot B in front of the detention cell and landscaping at the entrance to the development. The development is shown in five phases. Depending upon how fast the development develops; they may want to go back and plat the larger lots if they are selling faster than the smaller lots. They would have to plat that area and bring another preliminary plat to the Planning Commission and Council. 

Don Harris thought there was 80 acres, 57 acres was going to be developed and 23 was put on hold. Mr. Cajka said the legal description on the cover sheet and the surveyor has written that it is 80.5 acres. Upscale townhomes are planned for future development in Phase IC. 

Existing zoning over the entire area right now is RS. They are proposing that the urban area is rezoned to R-1 and the rest be RS. If the town homes develop they would have to come back and request a change to R-1, as you would not be able to put the town homes in the RS zone. RS zoning allows for 20,000 square feet minimum as long as you are on public water and sewer, you have to have 1-1/2 acres if it's rural water and septic and three acres if it is well and septic. R-1 is 7,200 square feet minimum; the smallest lot is now 7,400 square feet. The average lot is 8,500 square feet. There are some 10, 11 and 12,000 square feet lots. 

There was a question about a road not leading to anywhere. Part of the reasoning is that some people on the commission felt that area would not necessarily be developed next, or even in the future. This is in Phase IV, which is the last phase built. Bob Copple said they were trying to pick up general input on this and everybody was interested in bigger lots. They have sacrificed quite a bit on this and there are some 11,000 square feet and 10,500 square feet lots. They have no intention at this point in moving this into another development and if compared to some of the Omaha areas, these developments are kind of exclusive, that they don't run all of the streets into these areas. They do have access in and out of there; they've got an additional access going to the north. If you line it (Limestone Drive) up with Schliefert's, that access if it went out straight north would probably come in east of their barn. Who knows where the other one would even come out, they don't have any need for it, it doesn't appear to them to have any need to have the other one in there and gives them the flexibility to have some bigger lots that everyone was wanting. Tom Cajka pointed out two lots that were both 10,000 square feet to use as a reference point. Dan Henry asked where the old dump road would be. Tom Cajka pointed out where the dump road is. Greg Manley felt it would be about 150 feet east of the existing road going up to the house. Bob Copple said when you drive in the gate now, that is actually 150 to 160 feet east of where the gate is at this point. That detention pond is going to be where the existing road is. Bob Copple felt they could landscape around the detention pond and make it look very attractive. There was some concern about holding water in there for safety, it would be easier to landscape and keep it dry as to try to maintain it with some type of aesthetics with water in it. The existing house was pointed out on the drawing and the road system has worked out quite well for it to stay there. It is in good repair and at this point there is no reason to take it out. 

Dan Henry asked if Limestone Drive went straight north, where would it come out? Bob felt if the road went straight north it would come out between Schliefert's house and horse barn. If Sandstone Drive went straight north, it would come out at about the curve on Highway 66. Bob felt that most developments in Omaha do not extend the streets from development into the other, so it adds a little privacy and cuts down on the traffic coming in and out of the development. Ron Ross added that you would prefer to have "T" intersections than cross intersections because you reduce the amount of vehicular conflicts. It also slows down traffic. When the project was started the City had a sketch from the Village Clerk that showed some future utility extensions and street patterns. They matched that street pattern. Mr. Ross noted that Limestone Drive could come over some distance further to the east. They don't have anything to tie into because the City has nothing platted in this area yet. To have three streets would be excessive and also causes someone else; when they develop to the north, to match a street pattern where you don't necessarily need three streets. 

The detention pond with permanent water will be in Phase II. Phase IA is 33 single-family lots, also there are 17 of the half-acre lots. What was approved a little over a year ago, in the northern 20 acres, was a different lot configuration, but you basically already approved this particular area. A final plat is probably still on file for the old plan. Mr. Ross went on to explain that he encouraged Bob Copple and Dick Berner to consider further development and that is why the plat has changed. It was suggested to Bob that due to terrain and drainage there would be a slow-down in the whole process. The street pattern has changed from the first 20 acres, because of utilities and drainage. A detention cell brings the natural water that you have from the development into the cell, storing it during rainfall and slowly releasing it. The dry cell is located at the entrance and the cell with permanent water is in the secondary phase. Once Phase IA and Phase IB are developed it will be evaluated if they want to do the detention cell in Phase II as a permanent pool of water and detention, or if it might be a dry cell. They suggest that because of the view of the lots around it, that having a dry cell and permanent water would be an amenity and aesthetic for the development. It is being shown as permanent water but there has not been a definite commitment. The other cell in the future area, Phase IC, is from the tributary that drains about 65 acres to the west. It comes through and ties in with the main channel that literally flows water all the time and gets down into the flood plain. They are showing future detention in a future area that they are not platting at this point in time. It is not in the preliminary plat because they have kept 22 acres for the future, but this is what they have in mind for the future. That detention would really not detain their water, but other water coming from the east, but it comes through the area. They cannot build on it, because it is in a low area where the two tributaries come together, so they are suggesting additional detention.

The utilities will all be public, the City will be extending a l0" main which the development will tie into with an 8" main. The interior main will be 6". They anticipate that at some point in time, because of higher ground, there will need to be a booster station that will be part of the public water system. They are still evaluating that and determining where they would place it and at what point in the phasing. The sanitary will tie into an existing manhole and will run through on an easement, it will be 8". In order to serve the rural area to the south, they will need to have a lift station. They would like to suggest that be a public lift station. It is very small since it only serves the 17 lots in Phase IB, 9 future lots and 14 or 16 town homes. It will not be a large lift station, but in order to bring the sewage back over the ridgeline, they will need a small lift station. 

The drainage will be taken care of with storm sewer, indicated by green lines on the drawing, and will be stored in three detention cells as previously indicated. They are meeting Louisville's design requirements from the standpoint of intercepting the water, storing it and slowly releasing it. 

Ross Engineering has been communicating with JEO, the city engineer, from the standpoint of some of these issues. They still have additional work to do with JEO, which they will furnish to the City in the next week on the water system and what their thoughts on the booster pump and the future. 

They will be asking for a waiver since the ordinance states you have to have concrete roads with permanent curb and gutter with sidewalk. In the rural area they will be asking for a waiver to do the 26' wide asphalt, with the rural ditch. The asphalt will more than likely be over a crushed concrete base, depending on the soil stability. The urban portion, the regular single-family sized lots, will have the concrete pavement with curb, storm sewer, sidewalks on both sides, street lighting and street trees, which will part of the protective covenants for the homeowners. The street trees will be in different areas beyond different street tree standards where certain types of trees will be planted along different streets to give uniformity. This is not a City requirement, but it is something the developer wants to do as part of their project. 

There is an open area in the future area that is a nice meadow. They are looking at having a pedestrian trail that links this area into possibly an open picnic area and utilizing the existing suspension bridge to have a path system that links all of the lots to the urban area from the standpoint of the future area which is the rural lots. 

There are 160 lots in the preliminary plat with 9 future acreage lots and 16 town homes. 

Mayor Henry asked Eric Obert for his opinion on behalf of JEO. Eric stated concern over the grades of roads, north and south, and the percentage of the grade. Mr. Ross said the most extreme grade is at 9%. They are proposing to take out 70' of existing Elm Street, which is a 16% grade, reduce it down to a 10% grade. The City design standards have a maximum of 7%, although Elm Street on the north face is 10.4% and the south is a 9.8% grade. Eric stated it was a good idea on the part of the developer to do the detention cells but had questions on the path coming out of the cells. Mr. Ross showed on the drawing where the outlet control structures go into the sedimentation basin to slow down the velocity and turbulence of the water. There is a natural drainage way that goes down and wraps around; there is a 60" under Elm Street that goes down to Mill Creek. It will be crossing the northern property owner's property. That is why they have the detention cell, to slow down the drainage. Eric asked if they were meeting existing run off or lowers than existing run off? Ross Engineering is working on that now and their intent is to hopefully store enough water and release it so it is no more than "at to or less". Eric was concerned about the long dead-end line for the water along South Ridge Drive. Eric felt there should be concept when those lots are developed of bring the line back and tying it in to make a loop in the system. Mr. Ross noted it was not part of the preliminary plat, it is conceptual, they don't disagree with the concept, but it would be difficult constructing in that area because of going down the bluff. They don't know what is going to happen, they can't suggest what is going to happen that maybe there is going to be a main at that point in time to tie into. If there isn't, they may need to connect where the easement for the path is. Greg Manley said the future development is so far off and you have the dead end at the other end to start with. They will be doing all 6" and 8" water mains. Plans are for hydrants to be every 500 feet throughout the development. There was concern about flushing the line periodically on the dead end water line. Greg Manley asked if twice per year would be enough. Eric thought twice to four times per year would be adequate to get the stagnate water out of the line. 

Greg Manley asked about moving Limestone Drive further east than where it is. Mayor Henry asked about spreading the entrance and Limestone Drive further apart since Sandstone Drive had been taken out of the first preliminary plat. 

Morris Beck expressed concern over the location of the town houses and the section line running along the back of them. If the county road were to come through, you would pretty much be eliminating that with those houses there. Mr. Ross felt the town houses could be flipped to the other side of the road if in fact the City and county feel this has to be a roadway and would have some function and purpose. The area is heavily wooded and is secluded and unique, and the stream would prevent putting homes in certain spots, there really isn't enough room and this is why they wanted Bridge Point Drive as a private roadway, not gated, to create a rather unique setting. They suggesting the town houses as an alternate form of residential living, putting it a maintenance free type of environment. In the setting they have there with the terrain and the trees, it's kind of a nice open meadow. If in fact it is necessary to have a roadway going through to serve the City and county in a different fashion, then they would obviously have to react to that. Bob Copple said if the road did come through it would be quite a bridge structure to put in. Morris Beck asked if they intended to put a tube under Bridge Point Drive. Mr. Ross said it would probably be a small concrete box culvert since it is over 72". 

Mayor Henry asked Bill Krejci to give his opinion. Bill's concern was the suspension bridge and what they anticipate doing with the green area on the drawing. Mr. Ross said if they could get vehicles to it, they would probably put town houses in there. However, it is difficult to get to, so they are considering it as a future commons area for residents of the development. There is some rugged area with a flowing stream and they can't do much with that because of the corp. The other area is usable. Bill asked who would get the liability for the suspension bridge. Anything like this is a tremendous liability would the developer or the City be liable? Mr. Ross said they had discussed this and Dick Berner is looking into that. They will have it analyzed and the homeowners association would have to take out liability insurance; they would have to do that anyway on any open space in the development. Whether or not the underwriter in looking at that will have such a negative feeling that they say it can't stay, they will then have to deal with that. It is unique and they would like to incorporate it because it spans the creek, maybe there are some things that need to be done to that to improve it's usability and safety, but one of the first things they actually thought and talked about was probably taking it down. The more they have talked and thought and people have commented, it would be interesting to be able to keep it and integrate a walkway system that allows you to meander through the entire area. Bill asked if they had contacted the Corp as far as attempting to straighten out the stream, down toward the lower section there is a break and probably a 20 - 30' bank as far as stabilization. Mr. Ross stated they would rather not deal with the Corp, but they do deal with the Corp, it can be very difficult and sometimes very frustrating, that's not to say there isn't erosion control and bank stabilization that ought to happen, not necessarily because of this development. They have purposely stayed out of this from the standpoint of platting it because #1, they have a lot to do in Phase IA and Phase IB before they ever get back to Phase IC. They shouldn't suggest that they have no plans to do anything whatsoever, today, no they don't. In the future as all of this is successful and they really feel that it will be a tremendous demand for Phase IB and Phase IC, when that happens they will have to start dealing with the structure and get a Corp permit. Mr. Ross does not disagree about bank stabilization and especially once they get into developing back in there, there are probably some things they need to look at. They probably will approach the Corp and the NRD and ask for some assistance. They thought they were helping to control run off that comes from other property. They have space and can deal with it, so that is something they are suggesting as they get into development in the future phase, they will look at another detention cell. That one could very easily have some permanent water in it. 

Mayor Henry asked Bill when he looked at the smaller lots can you get houses on there? Bill said there were just a couple of lots where the back sections were only 40', so they are coming down in to a really tight point to make it really tough to get a house in there and maintain good setbacks and allow the owner to have a little room to work with. Bill said the lots are buildable and meet the standards. Mayor Henry noted that our standards say 7200 square feet is buildable, he doesn't think, along with a few others, if it is a perfect 7200 square foot lot, maybe it's buildable. Did Bill feel homes could be built on here? Bill said he had drove the area and there is a lot of open grassland and there are some areas that are a little more challenging, but as a whole, if the road is located correctly, it breaks away for nice, walkout ranches. Mayor Henry again asked if they could get good-sized homes up there? Bill replied yes. 

Mayor Henry asked that they are asking the City to annex Phase IA and Phase IB? Mr. Ross replied yes, that will be part of the final plat that they have not submitted yet, but they will. The rest does not have to be annexed into the City; they have done detailed drawings over the entire development because they need to work out grading, paving, drainage, storm sewer, utilities, etc., so they have studied the entire thing. That is quite a few lots to bring in to the market, so the first phase will be a mixture of the single family and the larger urban lots. Mayor Henry stated they are talking about the developer putting in the roads, sewer and water. Mr. Ross agreed. Mayor Henry asked if the City only annex's Phase IA and Phase IB at the present time, in the future if the rest is developed and annexed by the City, would the developer again be responsible for paving, water and sewer? Mr. Ross stated this would be correct. Mr. Ross stated they do this in stages and what they are asking the City for approval of is the preliminary plat, the overall concept, then they come back in stages and phases with a final plat, that's where the money gets put in escrow, that's where the legal documents are signed between the developer and the City, protective covenants, etc. As the final plat is approved, Mr. Ross suggests that would be the time to annex each individual section into the community. Mayor Henry stated to Eric Obert that he wants the City protected and wants to make sure that as that develops everybody understands up front, the same rules apply in Phase I, Phase II, Phase III, Phase IV, roads, sewers, water everything paid for by the developer and recouped from the sale of the lots and comes with no debt to the City. Tom Cajka noted that each phase they do will have to come back before the Planning Commission and City Council with a final plat. Mayor Henry wants everybody to understand, if they approve Phase IA and IB, the water, sewer and whatever infrastructure will be the developers cost, but then as they go into the other phases, the same rules apply, because he does not feel the City can take on any more bonded debt. Mayor Henry's concern is the financial side of it, does it come with baggage or not. Mr. Ross noted that when the previous plat was approved by the previous town board, they approved about 20 acres and he believes they requested approval of the entire 20 acres in final plat form which would suggest as the Mayor had said that things like grading, paving and utilities are installed by the developer. There were some items that were paid for and that was in the Development Agreement, such as paved intersections, the City has some involvement with cost sharing of just that portion of the common intersection. They are doing sidewalks, street trees at developer cost. Street lighting is at City cost unless it is the power company; he was not sure how it works in Louisville. They will be asking for similar types of things that the City was going to approve and that was in that development agreement for this revised layout, similar to what you were doing before. 

Eric Obert asked what the timetable was for the final plat. Mr. Ross stated this would go to the Planning Commission next week followed by Council action at a public hearing on March 14, 2001. The Planning Commission meeting went very well and reacted to some suggestions and made modifications in the plan. They will follow-up with final plats right away with construction drawings and hope to have everything under way as soon as weather conditions allow them to get started. Mayor Henry noted that at the end of the Planning Commission meeting, he visited with Jim Williams, a local builder, and he asked him his thoughts. Jim Williams felt the lots needed to be a little bit bigger. Mayor Henry and Jim Williams met with Bob Copple and Dick Berner and visited with them about the possibility of bigger lots, this is the result. That was one of the main concerns that the Planning Commission had. Morris Beck, head of the Planning Commission, said everything was pretty much thumbs up, but they wanted to see the lot sizes larger. 

Dave Pankonin asked that on Phase IB, the asphalt part, would the asphalt just go to the phase line initially. Mr. Ross pointed out on the drawing where the concrete paving would end and the transition from the concrete to the asphalt would start in the rural section and would end at the end phase line with a temporary turn around since the end of the road would not be a through road until the future. Mr. Ross said that what their overall thoughts were was while the equipment is out there to go ahead grade the road on through and are working on negotiating an easement so that at some point in time they can make that connection for emergency access. Bob Copple said they did not want to open that up right away because they did not want to feed any more traffic in there than what is needed and once that develops, they can look at finalizing that. 

Don Harris noted he did not see the detention ponds in Omaha and was wondering if there were any alternatives to those detention ponds. Mr. Ross explained there are a number of projects in Seward and has built a rather large detention cell, any more most communities are integrating, as Louisville has, in the design standards to require detention. There are times when you don't need it, but in a case like this, Mr. Ross felt you would be amiss for not following your own design criteria and suggesting the fact that you need to be thinking about situations down stream and that is the whole theory behind the detention cell. Some people will put them in as a permanent pool of water for aesthetic reasons and could be amenity for the development. Some are dry cells and you can deal with those with plant materials and different vegetative materials that you use that can sustain that extra wetness that the soils will have. As to is there an alternative to that, it would be tough to terrace a residential development, unless you would have everyone have mini detention cells that pond in the backyard and you probably wouldn't want to mow through something like that. Mr. Ross felt the detention cell was the solution for a larger development when you have increased run off. Don Harris noted that in Prairie Hills people didn't like the idea of that at all of the detention pond proposed. Mr. Ross noted that if the City would say to them, "that's okay, you don't need to have them" he would still say to his client that they need to think about the affects of after this site is graded, built, paved, rooftops and he feels his clients are corporate citizens of Louisville and don't want to receive phone calls at night from people saying they have some problems, our basement is full of water. They feel it is a vital part of the project, that's why they have designed them, showed grading to incorporate these into the project. Eric Obert said in Lincoln on 84th street, you would see about a half dozen examples of wet and dry detention cells, and a lot of times you don't even know the dry ones are there. Eric went on to say this is really protection for the City. The EPA is really coming down on storm water discharge and Omaha and Lincoln have to deal with it all the time and it will trickle down to the smaller communities. This is something they are looking for sediment residue. This is protection for the City and he felt it was a great concept and he is happy to see it in the plan. Even during the construction, that dry pond perhaps will be built during the construction period, because of the permit they will be required to get during construction. This is to the benefit of the City in Eric's opinion. 

Mayor Henry asked Greg Manley if this is the way it should be or not. Greg said yes, although he would move the one road further up to the east that would access north in Phase IV. Bob Copple asked where they are with the elevations and grades on that if they change the road, if Bob had his choice he wouldn't have a road there. Mr. Ross said it would not bother them to move it grade wise; it doesn't present any problems or change the drainage. Mr. Ross said it was nice to have it where it is because it gave them vehicular access to the back of the detention cell and is a buffer on the side. Bob said they had a lot of nice landscape materials out there and they think they can make that detention cell, with huge rocks and berms and trees, it will be a nice aspect to the project and they can control the water. Bill Krejci felt it would be very tough to extend a road to the north due to the terrain. Mr. Ross said that grade wise this was the best location and it gives maintenance access to the detention cell. From the City standpoint logically you would put it further east, but from the standpoint of trip generation in and out of this development, getting over to paved roads you probably do want to move it to the west so you can exit traffic out of this via another road and not necessarily place it here. 

Rod Petersen wanted to know how much dirt would have to be moved, since it is pretty rugged out there. Mr. Ross noted on the drawing where the fill would be, they be grading the high knolls and filling in the low areas. Rod asked how much would be done in Phase IB; otherwise you would lose all the trees. Mr. Ross said they will be losing a few trees and unfortunately some are big Oaks, but you have to lose them somewhere or you can't even drive in there. Once they get into the meadow, they would not lose anything and the roadway is very, very close to balancing. Rod said it looked good to him. 

Clete Petrzilka expressed concern about the lower pond. He felt it had been somewhat rectified by locating the road next to it and berming it so the water drains off and you wouldn't have kids playing in it. Bob Copple noted that cell would not store water. 

Martin Stander of the Planning Commission had a concern on Phase IB particularly if by chance they bring the section road down through, they might want to consider reserving lots 26 and 27 out of Phase IB, just by chance if they continue the section road it goes down the line or cuts across the creek and heads down into the development. The private drive road has been included in Phase IB. There is a dumpsite to the west he would like to see cleaned up and it opens up, without restricting and he has no problem with including a certain area into Phase IB, but just to keep the option open whether they come down this way or cross the creek and come down the other way. Mr. Ross felt it would be a realistic trade off from the standpoint of running it this way and he felt you could achieve that by lot 27, possibly leaving it out, it would give plenty of room to transition and come on through. One lot is already left out and the lift station would be there and they aren't actually building this road in Phase IB, other than it would be a gravel road up to the lift station just for maintenance. They are really not planning on doing too much grading in that area. They will talk about that and respond to it before the Planning Commission meeting on March 5, 2001 and Council on March 14, 2001 for the public hearings. Bob Copple noted the dumpsite Martin referred to is on the Hoover property. It is not really a dumpsite, but a ditch with debris in it. 

Don Harris asked about the asphalt and if there is any reason why they couldn't put pavement in, is it the cost of it? Mr. Ross said it was more than the cost. The cost is a factor but they really want it to be a rural setting, not that you don't have county roads that are concrete, but normally county roads are there to move traffic. They are hoping they are not moving a tremendous amount of traffic and are hoping to preserve the trees, they are not having sidewalks in that area, they are talking about a chipped limestone trail in some areas but they felt the rural character was more enhanced by the asphalt. They did widen it out from 24' to 26'. Cost is a factor. He feels very strongly that they can give the City, and a JEO will have input on their recommendations of design thickness and they have talked about going even further than they normally would do with full-depth asphalt, depending on soils. They will look into that and possibly have a crushed concrete base so all in all, he thinks this road will stand up. They are not envisioning a tremendous amount of cross traffic. They don't have a great number of homes in that area and one of the benefits of asphalt is you can come in and mill off the surface and put down a fresh new layer of asphalt with little expense, effort and cost, whereas, with concrete, once it is cracked, once you start dealing with it, it is much more costly and difficult for a community to deal with. Eric Obert agreed with Mr. Ross, it is a cost upfront and it is easy to fix, but the fact is concrete lives longer than asphalt. You don't get the ruts and when you are plowing the streets you are going to get some typical ruts and if you look at the life cycle of both streets they are pretty much the same, but in the years you would need to resurface that asphalt several times, so the initial cost would be different. He does have some concern about the drainage on both sides, culverts under the roads, how big of shoulders we have on it. Eric doesn't think 6" would be enough, but maybe 7" depending on the subgrade. Mayor Henry asked if Eric could get road dirt that could hold up. Eric said yes. Greg Manley noted the key to asphalt is a good subbase. Rod Petersen added that as soon as you put it in that's when you get your cement trucks, lumber trucks, etc. Construction is the hardest on the road. Bob Copple noted that sometimes they put the 4" or 5" base, leave that set and do the topcoat later. Let the city decide when they would be ready for the armor coat. They anticipate that these half-acre lots would sell fairly quickly and they would have a lot of interest in those. The City could say when it is 75%-80% completed they want them to come in and armor coat the top 2" or however you design that. Bob noted there are some places between Louisville and Lincoln where that is a requirement for asphalt, lay down the base, get your construction done, get the traffic off it, come in a lay the 2" on top and you have a brand new street. You can run in to a timing problem with that too. 

Eric Obert asked about the green area in the eyeball cul-de-sacs if they were concrete or grass? Mr. Ross said this would be a landscaped area, so it will be grass and landscaping. Eric asked who would be responsible for it? Mr. Ross said they would have a homeowners association because they have open space and detention areas and they would be happy to write that into the homeowners association that they have responsibility of that, the City would not have to go out and mow it. 

Eric Obert asked about widening the curve into the subdivision a little bit because of the traffic going into the area? Mr. Ross noted it was a 150' radius and they can look at that. Eric wondered if it could slow the traffic down and sometimes people will crowd the centerline. 

Mark Leibman asked if the lots in the rural area are sold and big homes get built presumably you have a decent tax base to maintain that road in the future, wouldn't that be a net plus to the community? Mayor Henry noted that Eric Obert and Greg Manley who know something about roads have said what their thoughts are. Mayor Henry stated he had asked Bill Krejci about the lots and Eric Obert about the other items because that is what the City pays them for and if they see things there they need to let the City know. They say they don't have big problems here so that is what the Council will base their decision on. Eric Obert stated that a lot of his decisions would come later when he has had a chance to review the design calculations and materials. 

There was no further questions or discussion.

Motion by Pankonin, second by Manley to adjourn at 8:35 p.m. Ayes: Harris, Manley, Pankonin and Petersen. Nays: none. Motion carried.

I, the undersigned clerk, hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and correct copy of the proceedings had and done by the mayor and City Council of Louisville to the best of my knowledge, that the agenda was kept continually current and available for public inspection; and that the minutes were in written form and available for public inspection within 10 working days; the minutes are published in summary form, upon request a complete copy is available at the City Hall.

Candace J. McClun
Clerk/Treasurer


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